Tuesday, July 15, 2014

my biggest errors are made when i have way too many chips--and yet people STILL say i need to play more deepstacked.

it sure is nice and cool sitting here in front of BOTH a fan and an AC after carrying tons of laundry home. Also deposited a few more hundred in the bank on the way too.

i can think of several mistakes i made today, and it was the deepest game ive seen in a while with about the maximum number of players giving action with garbage in a while. i was in the game for only $108 ($40 plus $68) and i briefly had a little over $500 in front of me. im happy my win rate is now back over $20 per hour---but i couldve had a much higher amount of chips.

early on, i had my original $40 up to $147, and then lost ALL the chips to the same old man from the other day who came over the top of me for $45 preflop with J9 offsuit and won. he left very quickly after, and i rebought $68 right after that and did well ever since. today i had 88 flopped a set, (get sets way more often with 88 than any other pair) and the flop was 78Q with 2 clubs. lady bet $20, he calls, other guy calls, and i shove, happy to take it down. but then he calls, and only has 69 offsuit, and rivers the straight. pissed me off.

but thats not what im really here to talk about i want to talk about all the errors i make when i have too much on the table, and i know its because the money means so much to me. i was sitting next to a guy from the Detroit/IN area on his way to tahoe, a good player, and we were talking alot about different straddles rules various states around the USA, and he was telling me about the racetrack outside indianapolis and their VBJ. $5 min, and he said there was different types of machines hes seen, and only 1 showed the shuffle.

also the only poker at that racebook is on electronic tables and its too far out to be on public transit.

anyway the first hand i played poorly due to having a large stack was again a hand when i flopped 888. (yes a different hand). the lady whose quite loose and with a woman friend, both older than me, and she and one other old guy gave more action than anyone except the old man who beat me and left.

someone (not sure who) made a raise preflop to $8-12 and about 3-4 called. flop cames T83 rainbow, and i couldnt have asked for much more. (this was before i realized how loose she was). she bets $20 on the flop, all fold to me, and i only call. (mistake 1) she had me covered too. turn comes 4, she bets $35, and i still dont raise. (i knew she would keep betting, and i didnt want her coming over the top if she had 10 10 10) thats dumb thinking on my part.

river comes K and she bets $40. i think a long time, wondering why the K dont scare her, and maybe she was scared, she didnt bet much. anyway i only call (huge err) fearful of losing whole stack if she reraised, and of course, i won the pot. all she had was 10 6.

2nd mistake (well not really a mistake--i did make a good read) im playing against a different old man whose a bit more conservative but claims to not be. he has the whole table covered, with about $650. he makes it $15 preflop, the lady bets $55, and she has about $375 and i have $500

i look down, find KK, and only call, scared of aa, and of course, losing my ENTIRE win back, which was close to $400 (almost 4 days worth of income)--way too much for my comfort level. i didnt want to commit, and see an ace flop. then he reraises another 60 on top, and im sure he has aa then, she calls, and then i call to set mine, but shouldnt.

flop comes 69J with 2 diamonds. he bets $100, she calls, and i FOLD. turns out he did have aa, she mucks on the end (no idea what she has) but he kept betting all the way thru til she was allin, and i wouldve won since the river was a king. and it was a HUGE pot.

i am halfway proud of myself for making this fold, there was a point in my life id been unable to make that fold even putting him on aa. yet seeing the river made me sick, and i left then to go pick up my laundry, thankful to still be winning $275.

im not sure if i deserved to win that much as bad as i feel i misplayed the 888. so whats the solution to avoid all the errs with big stack play? all i know is to leave the game when i have too many chips, no matter how horribly the others are calling down bets with. it was a game u could make a lot of money value betting the pot or more if u didnt get sucked out on.

the good news is as my roll grows, this will slowly solve itself on its own, as the money slowly means less to me than it does now.


  1. you're not bad deep bc the money means so much. you'll think nothing of shoving half your net worth into a machine. you're bad deep stacked because you have a very limited understanding of poker, the deeper you get the more complex decisions get and the more you're screwed.when you stick to tight 2 card poker, and push your 30 blinds with premiums you win a little.

  2. and this is a perfect example of why you're awful deep
    you don't even know who raised, how much they raised to,how big the pot is etc

  3. and that 88 hand may be there worst hand i've ever heard of in my life
    it's unreal youll shred so much money in stupid machines but are scared of your own shadow with a mosnter that is good 99 pct of the time vs someone you can make a ton of money off of. i would have laughed in your face if i was your opponent that hand.

  4. Tony, would you allow a guest post? Now that you've hit $5,000 I think I could write a nice little celebratory blog entry on your behalf. Of course, I'd email it to you before hand and get your approval.

  5. Tony - I think you lack practice playing deep stacked, and, in addition to the fear of losing "big money," you are uncomfortable with a larger stack situation. Perhaps if you start playing deeper in the future, you'll become more comfortable, and in turn, better.

    With the flopped set of 8's hand, what hands were you afraid of? You should have made a lot more money by kicking it up a notch on the turn perhaps. I wasn't there in the situation, but you may have made all you could by just check / calling and letting her bet for you - but you absolutely need to throw out a check / raise on the river to maximize...

    1. i feel i played the 888 hand rather badly and wouldnt have if either me or her were a lot less deepstacked. i was worried about 10 10 10 and KKK and being reriased, because i felt like id have to call a reraise. and i was 2nd to act, so i cant check raise.

    2. how on earth do you just call the river?

    3. "the lady whose quite loose and with a woman friend, both older than me, and she and one other old guy gave more action than anyone except the old man who beat me and left."

      So you're talking about the LAG'iest player at the table here... the player who's liable for any two cards... and I get the first 2 streets; giver he enough rope to hang herself and she certainly is doing that... But there are so many hands that will call a check / raise river and/or a check / raise turn that you WAY butchered the hand. It's one thing to lose money by calling while you're behind, but there's another way to lose money - by not maximizing value when you have the goods. You should have gotten a lot more out of the hand, and your lack of practice / fear was what enabled to make an egregious error. Learn from your mistake instead of dwelling on it.

    4. Tony's 51st shirt should be one of those "Scared Money Don't Make Money" t-shirt's

    5. Tony's 51st shirt should be one of those "Scared Money Don't Make Money" t-shirt's

    6. first two street are awful too
      build the pot and get your stack in this deep
      call call raise is making near the bare minimum

    7. Jim Beam-
      I somewhat disagree. She's a loose aggro. Why shouldn't he let her bet her air and spew for 2 or three streets. The last thing you want is to let her off the hook by tipping the strength of your hand... Given the fairly brief description, she's libel to do this same bet bet bet with air as she is with TPNK. Let her take some stabs before raising and potentially zeroing out the hand by trying to raise...

    8. bc she's gonna call with any pair or any draw
      why play a monster to make 30 blinds?

      at worst she has absolute air so you lose 1 bet out of her
      or she has a 10, 79,j9 and god knows what else where she's willing to put in a ton of money-

      I will say this- it's hilarious when i have a monster vs someone like tbc who is scared money and they just call call call w their better monster saving me most of my stack

    9. Without a doubt. I think there a couple ways of dissecting the hand - and I acknowledge there's no "right" way to play. However, I think she shows up with air and bets air far more often than shows up with a TP hand here. That's why I wait until the turn to get more money in. To reference what you said - "so you lose 1 bet out of her" - you lose far more than 1 bet if you raise the flop when she shows up with air. I think you raise the turn and/or bet the turn but if nothing else whatsoever, you *HAVE* to raise the river! If Tony is afraid with his mid set against this lady, I have to pause and wonder how much more money he's lost on prior hands by not calling his second pairs, top pairs down for value as well...

    10. the flop was also 5-6 ways making it a lot less likely she's bluffing

      it would help if tbc actually gave us more details such as a better read or stack sizes but without a doubt he played it as bad as
      humanly possible

      she has tp and draws way more than air- call call raise screams scared money w a monster and makes the bare minimum over a reasonable range
      people in 1/2 don't fold top pair or draws, so might as well make them pay

  6. ended up with $5074 after a $295 loss at poker, and got some of it back on VP, and then busted out early on a bluff in a tourny i shouldnt entered when tired. going to sleep now. why dont they still have the krill freerolls on seals nearly as often?

  7. Quite relieved that i didnt take another big loss in a row today, was out 3 buyins for $132 total, had to go and use the ATM, and then managed to recover plus $56 profit. i got up and left then cause i had too much on the table to feel comfortable and just didnt feel like playing anymore. also was relieved to find my new debit atm card in the mail today. my hourly is slowly dropping, but anything over $15 ill not be too unhappy about if it still over that by the 500th hour.

    1. Tony-

      One thing I'll say is that $15-20 /hr at 1/2 with a min buy in is a very good rate. I am truly impressed if you're honestly grinding it out for that hourly rate. I remember reading somewhere on 2+2 that anywhere above $20 / hr is killing the game, so you're pretty close to that threshold. Good job! Keep up the good work - I hope you're being honest with yourself as far as keeping accurate logs.

    2. it's over a meaningless sample and he hasn't run bad yet

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