Tuesday, August 29, 2017

a weird situation which took place tonight at my table

    Let's talk about why my roll is now over $21,000 since coming to Toledo from Vegas. its NOT just due from the $2600 ive won in BJ since returning to Ohio. its not just from playing more $2-5 and more PLO than i used to. Much lower expenses, better gaming conditions, and a bit of luck have had alot to do with it.

lets discuss a hand tonight in which a guy got mad and called me "a little bitch" for calling over the floorman. i had close to $250 in front of me, and a guy reraised my preflop raise with AA, i reraised to $112, and he put me allin. flop comes up 456. turn comes 3. river comes 2. i show AA, and wait to see his cards, and the dealer speaks up and says "split pot" WTF? hes not supposed to say nothing unless he turns his hand over. i think they were friends. so he starts pulling back his chips, (which his and mine werent even counted yet) and im asking for the floor so loud the floor cant help but overhear. now this guy had went to such lengths to muck his hand in such a way id never be able to see it, so it wouldnt be recoverable. he thinks he dont need to show it since the dealer says its a split pot. the floor consults with his boss, then returns to tell him his hand is dead since he didnt show. then he goes ballistic since he didnt get any of the pot. (plus losing his $250) and starts saying im angleshooting and calling me all those names and goes off on the dealer for not telling him to show his hand. i got to keep the whole pot, then immediately left to be away from the guy.

spoke of it when i entered the next room while signing up, and this floorman too agreed i deserved the pot. i think the dealer was the one out of line for trying to give him half the pot without having him have to show me what he went allin with.


33 comments:

  1. So dealer says "split pot" (Which he shouldn't have)
    You cause a scene
    Opponent mucks during your tantrum.
    You successfully use his muck to claim the whole pot.

    You angleshot huge here. If I was present at the table, I'd be sure to tell everyone you're a huge angleshooter if I ever sat down with you again.

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    1. he was mucking from the beginning long before i had time to ask for the floor.

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  2. This is one time you're 100% correct. If he mucked without showing, his hand is dead, and he had no claim to any portion of the pot. And you're also right that the dealer shouldn't have declared a split pot until he had read the hands, which he couldn't do if one of them was mucked without showing. After all, the other guy might have had a 7, which would give him the whole pot, or he might have had a fouled hand--three cards or just one card or two six of clubs or whatever--and been entitled to nothing even after showing.

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  3. Also, what's your goal in posting this? You'll never listen to the people who tell you it's scummy to cause a distraction in the hopes your opponent doesn't show his cards, after the dealer makes a clear indication it's a split pot.

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  4. Bob is right on the money here. You didn't tell the other player to muck his hand, and you didn't ask the dealer for a comment. They made mistakes, you didn't.

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  5. Good decision by the floor it may have been an honest mistake by the dealer ...you were right to make a stink before the dealer began splitting the pot....the loser should have immediately tabled his hand

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  6. so your a angle shooter big surprise (not) the guy was told by the dealer it was a split pot the dealer runs the game this is the dealers fault period

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  7. Although you are correct, you are also limited in your choices of where to play in Detroit. It's DETROIT. Let that sink in. And let me open a betting line on how long it takes for you to piss the wrong person off. It's not Reno, Tony. You need to a) take some kind of self-defense class and b) go about things differently to keep from seeming rude.

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  8. The dealer screwed up. He should have waited for the other guy to show his hand before saying split pot and since the other guy mucked before showing then you get the whole pot.

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  9. TBC I have only been playing 20 years. The dealer called it a split pot because if i am correct the board plays unless someone has a seven which is a better straight. The AA does not play because it is a lower straight than the board. He could have had pocket AA or nothing. Yes he should not have listened to the dealer and mucked his cards. You my friend are the king of the angle shooters. You better watch your back. If I was a young man I might wait around for you to leave the casino area and than kick your butt for the fun of it.

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    1. Dude. I was at the poker table when this happened.

      There is a rule, that exists in every card room I've ever played in, this rule is "one player to a hand". Poker is not a team sport. The guy who mucked actually tried to push the chips towards TBC anyway. The dealer is the one who caused the problem to begin with. The guy who mucked didn't know there was a straight on board. He was drunk. So, how is it angling to take a pot that's rightfully yours? The guy mucked his hand. Dealer needs to STFU, and just wait for both players to open their hands, and award pot based on showdown. It's pretty simple....

      If the dealer wouldn't have said "It's a chop.", the whole thing wouldn't have happened anyways. Everyone else should keep their big traps shut (one player to a hand), and he never even knows the difference until afterward. Then player who mucked has no one to blame but himself.

      The dealer was so out of line it tilted me a little TBH. I expect that kind of dumb stuff from fish who have no idea about the rule. A dealer should NEVER, under any circumstances, declare a pot a chop if both hands have not been opened. One player to a hand. This dealer needs to be taught to keep his mouth shut and deal cards.

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    2. i didnt realize he was going to push me the chips, i do know he was mucking his hand and was drunk. i was so sidetracked by the dealers obvious effort to give him half the pot, i only seen him pulling them back when the dealer said chop. i thought one or more of the players did too. i know he was adamant i not see his hand, which is why he pushed it to where it was unretrieveable. was he the same guy who when i got the 4 9's threw them in face down when i said lets see those to make sure he didnt overlook 4 7's? it mightve been him, not sure. if so, i guess that could be why he wanted to make sure i didnt see his hand

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    3. Lol so you want mucked hands to stay mucked unless you have quads then you want to turn over someone else's hand. Make up your mind. I think it would be pretty clear if someone had quads and lost. No need to see that hand

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    4. It was the same guy when you had quad nines.

      @Josh Kay.... he was being facetious with four nines dude. He was making a joke regarding bad beat jackpot (I am pretty sure).

      The guy mucked his cards Josh. Nothing wrong with taking the edge drunk foolish people give to you at a poker table.

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  10. I don't profess to be an expert on this Tony, but I feel this is a very fine line between a genuine query and an angle shoot. Let me just ask you how you would have felt had the situations been reversed and you had thrown in your cards once the dealer said "Split pot", and the other player protested the dealers call of the hand?

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    1. The dealer isn't allowed to say "split pot". One player did not show their hand. The player has to turn cards over on his own. No one can help him make the decision to open his hand.

      Poker isn't charity. The guy wants to give $300 away, that's the way it is.

      If we can help this guy recognize that there is a straight on the board, how is that any different than two players (or more) playing one set of hole cards, against one other person?

      I would have done the exact same thing as TBC. The dealer should never deal poker again, in my opinion. So, so, so outof line for him to say it's a chop. It clearly wasn't known by the player who mucked his hand that there is a straight on the board.... Just sayin'.....

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  11. I already posted a comment. It has not appeared yet? Here we go....


    I was at the table with TBC.

    The villain was drunk. When the river was dealt (before the dealer said "It's a chop!"), villain actually tried to push the chips in front of him to TBC. He didn't know there was a straight on the board.

    Here is the main point. There is a rule in every poker room I've ever been in. It's probably from "Robert's Rules" as well. Google it.

    "One player to a hand"

    It should be obvious what this applies to. Let me spell it out for all you jerks who think this is some sort of angle by TBC.

    Had the dealer done his job correctly, and STFU until both players open their hands, on their own accord, none of this would have even happened.

    Have you ever seen a heads up pot? There is 4 hearts on board. Player A opens his hand. He has a set, no flush. All player B needs to beat player A's hand is a single heart in his hand. So, some dipstick at the table, who isn't involved in the hand, says something like "if you have a heart, you win"

    Player B looks at his cards again, says "oh", and tables his hand, beating player A.

    It's one player per hand. If the dealer keeps his mouth closed, the guy would have just mucked his hand. No one would have said a word until after the hand was over, and pot has been shipped. The guy didn't know there was a straight on board. If you play poker, you have to make the decision to open your hand, no one can ever help you with this.

    Dealer keeps quiet, no huge problem. The dealer caused the problem, not TBC.

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    1. comments must wait til theyre approved to stop trolls or spammers. once i seen it from reading email, i hit approve while at the poker table tonight.

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  12. I don't get the grief that Tony is getting on this from some of you. At least as he tells the story, he is 100% right. It's not even arguable.

    The thing I do wonder is if the dealer said "Split pot" or if he said "Split Pot?" with a question mark inflection in his voice. That would be encouraging the guy to show his hand and that would have been just as bad as stating it as a fact but I am just curious if that's how it happened.

    But as told, the dealer screwed up big time and it is really his fault the guy didn't get half the pot, not Tony's. I am curious as to at what point the other guy mucked his cards. Was it before or after the dealer said "Split pot"? I mean, why was he so anxious to muck his cards? If he was too dumb (or too drunk) to understand that he had to show his hand to get half the pot, that's on him.

    The only other thing that would give me pause as if it turned out the guy was a newbie and he didn't understand the rule. That would be tough but again, would put all the blame on the dealer.

    I don't see how Tony can be of angle shooting in anyway here.

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    1. You guys just don't seem to understand. I know you mean well....

      The dealer can't say "split pot". He hasn't seen both sets of hole cards. It's not the dealer's fault the guy didn't get half the pot. The guy mucked his hand, after the dealer said "split pot".

      He said it like "split pot." It wasn't a question. The dealer should not say a word. The only thing he can really say is announce TBC's hand. He could say "straight", and push up five cards to make a straight. Even that is borderline. He should simply wait for the guy (yeah, the one who decided to muck his hand in a clear chop) to open his hand.

      The dealer is there to deal. Not tell people how to play their cards. One player to a hand.

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  13. Tony you did the right thing. You have every right to defend your claim to the pot and protect the rules of the game from being abused by a dealer or opponent.

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  14. Following the rules of poker is not angle shooting. The only person who might have been angle shooting was the dealer or he might just be a really bad dealer to not know one of the most basic rules of poker.

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    1. Nappy - not to quibble, but I believe angle shooting IS following the rules. That's what distingquishes and angle shot from cheating.

      Angle shooting is staying within the rules but using them to effect a positive outcome for yourself in ways most would consider within the rules but unethical. Point being, "following the rules of poker is not angle shooting" is aximatically incorrect.

      I do agree with you that Tony was following the rules.

      s.i.

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  15. This would have been the perfect situation to stand up at the table and at the top of your lungs yell: "SHIP IT!!!"

    Very well played Tony and you were 100% in the right on this one...

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  16. From my perspective, while you can all discuss the technicalities of the rule, the bottom line is that Tony knew, based on his hand, he was entitled to either half the pot or none of it. He proactively complained about the dealer's and/or players actions and fought for a pot that, barring error, he would not have been entitled to. He may have been technically correct, but if it were me, I would have graciously agreed to split the pot. Then again, I do not value money above all else in life . . .

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    1. @ Pete...

      These are valid points. But I think TBC is trying to make a living grinding? If that's true, we can't be throwing away huge edges...

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  17. If you sit down at a poker table, it is your responsibility to know the rules and call the floor if you need a clarification. You let the floor make the decision and that's that.

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  18. You guys all get off on this rules discussion, this goes on at the tables too after unusual situations as nauseam. What's interesting to me is Tony winning $2,600.00 at BJ. How big could his counting edge really be, and how much over his life roll head is he playing? When the inevitable downswing comes, will he Martindale and chase off 10 G's or so? With no income, his roll is basically finite, one and a half to two percent edges tend to have large negative downswing. I'm not saying this can't happen at poker, but careful game selection and smart play, along with money magement and maximizing comps, even at poker, should keep Tony grinding a long time, maybe for a lifetime. I would be Leary of holding out such hope for BJ in TBC's situation.

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    1. Yeah I agree about blackjack. I only play poker. I rarely gamble vs house. I only commented on this hand because I was at the table.


      As far as poker goes, TBC is a super nit. He isn't going to get paid off by me (ever), unless he cold decks me set vs set or something.

      So, that being said, I would venture to say TBC fits the stereotype of someone who probably manages money well? It's tough to beat poker man. Like 95%+ of people playing live low stakes can't do it. They just make the same mistakes over and over.

      So, kudos to anyone who can build a roll and make it. It's tough.

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  19. I can just imagine what Tony's reaction to this incident on the poker table would have been like. He would have been screaming his head off like a stuck pig. Those of us who know him well, know that he never ever lets a chance go by to collect a dollar, even if there is some ethical doubt about the fairness of what happened. If he can get an edge through fair or foul play, Tony will take it.

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  20. do you still think that people not turning over their cards is annoying?

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